So, I went to the water park today. Originally, my friend Heather and I were going to a different one, but then it turned out no one else was and we decided on a less expensive option. We finished swimming around the same time as a large group of kids—thirty something. They were gathering in the parking lot as Heather and I waited for her sister to arrive, and we noticed their shirts said “Krishna” on the front, circled by smaller words. After a couple minutes of mingling by us they moved towards their vehicles on the other side of the parking lot. Now, I had been sitting there, thinking I should talk to them, but was too shy/afraid to approach someone. I was going to leave it be, but Heather said “that’s sad.” I asked her, and she meant that it was like a huge youth group event for them . . . but it was false. So, I asked her if we should go over there and talk to them and she said sure. Since I went to Dare2Share in February I knew kind of how I would talk to them.
We approached a girl and I asked her what Krishna was. She started to answer and then grabbed one of her friends, who in turn grabbed another. They said he was God, opalescent and everything good—that they learn like 72 different qualities. One girl said “but there are like 400” and another said, “No, there isn’t. He just only told us that many.” That’s what the small words were around the word Krishna. Stuff like “strength of the strong,” “intelligence of the intelligent.” By this time there was a small semi-circle in front of the two of us. Not long after a mother came over and started talking with me.
One of the first things I asked is if there was a beginning or end to their God, and they said no. They began to say how it is hard for our minds to comprehend that since we are limited to time, and I said that I believe God has no beginning or end. They were still kind of talking about the qualities of Krishna, but somehow the subject got on how one needs to give love to God. When I asked if it was because he loved us, the kids said yes. From this point on it was pretty much just the mom and I talking back and forth and some of the kids even left the little crowd who was listening. She said something that implied life before life on earth and I asked if that meant that they existed before they were born here, and she said yes. That they were beings in what was very hard to understand as her description of heaven, with God (Krishna.)
She said that Krishna created the earth for us . . . and we have some inward desire to experience the things that happen here. This part was rather vague. But what they were not vague about was that when they came in contact with “matter” they were stained, blemished and now had to earn the way back into “heaven.” I specifically asked if we had to earn the way, and she said yes. Basically, humans re-incarnate until they reach that certain state in which they give the unselfish, unconditional love enough to God and everyone else enough.
When she mentioned about how the earth began, I said how Christianity says that God created us to be with him, but when we sinned it separates us from him. She did not really interrupt me at this point. Once she said they had to be “good enough” I asked what they believe about Jesus. She said that he was a great “Devotee.” Here I said “Well, what about his claim to be Christ, the Son of God?” At this point she started getting more tense and frustrated, but not quite angry. Here she said how all of us are “sons of God” and began talking about how there are “different levels of knowledge.” I asked here what about the statement “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father, but through me.” And she really didn’t like this. She said that he was talking to the people in the crowd. And that he was a great Devotee, and went on the say how they have Devotees who disciple people who come down in a perfect line of disciples. When I said how Jesus died for the sins of mankind, so they could be forgiven she said that was the one major point wrong with Christianity—that how can you confess something and then keep doing it? Instead, she said, you have someone who helps you become more loving and unselfish. One of those disciple, Devotee people, like the kind that leads their services.
She also did not really answer when I asked, “So, if we’ve come in contact with matter and we are just completely lost, how can we ever get better or good enough?” She just kept saying it takes lots and lots of practice. Whenever I brought up Bible verses she said how there are the “different levels of understanding” and I asked if their sort of “Bible” was the highest level, she wouldn’t say that it was, just that there were different levels. This was her way of excusing Jesus claiming to be the way.
And on this note, it’s good to mention that when I asked if they believed if the God of Christianity, Buddah, Krishna etcetera are the same, she said they are not, they are just different titles for the one God. Yes, they are monotheistic. The way she said that Jesus was not really the way and that the gods are all just different names for one God makes it seem that if you end up at the perfect loving state you will get to “heaven” regardless of how you got there. After all, there is no need for forgiveness according to this, so why would there need to be one way?
I used to wonder how so many different religions have come into the world, but hearing more about Hare Krishna I realized that there is so much similar to the truth, but then the tiniest—yet most important things—will be just slightly different, making everything skewed. When we started finishing our conversation because they were leaving soon one of the girls gave us these tiny little cookies which Heather said tasted like Macadamia. They were so sweet that I ate mine very slowly. They also gave us home made banana nut bread, which I loved. Then they had to leave, so the lady asked for my phone number and I said how about e-mail address because that would work better. So, we exchanged e-mail addresses, and her name is Premananda.
I decided I want to avoid having phone conversations at all cost because then I have time to think, talk with my youth pastor, mom and dad, and pray before I respond. And just now, googling her e-mail address I found out that she must have a relatively high standing position in their community because her e-mail was at the bottom of one of the web pages to contact if attending a certain event.
All of this took place in slightly less than 20 minutes. After the fact Heather said she wouldn’t have known what to say, but I am extremely grateful that she was there. Because it was so good having someone by my side and without her I wouldn’t have gone over there at all. I would have ignored that urge. So, thank the one true God for friends. And thank God for the series they’ve been doing at church, because a lot of the stuff I said was stuff I just heard in the past two weeks! And thank God for Dare2Share because I wouldn’t have had a clue on how to approach them or speak with them. Dare2Share taught me how to show my respect and care for people while talking with them, and how to un-abrasively communicate through questions rather than talking at someone.
Well, thank you for reading all that! I just had to write it down really quick tonight before I forgot anything, so sorry if anything is confusing. And prayers are always appreciated. =]
Friday, August 08, 2008
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6 comments:
Wow... I am so impressed! I'm a very outspoken person, but can't bring myself to witness because of that fact. I'm always too afraid that I'll lose my patience and become disrespectful, but you handled that so well!!! And props to your friend for deciding to go!!!
~Kenyn
P.S. I was wondering, what denomination of church do you attend? I'm trying to learn about other denominations and I find that this is the best way for me. Email me if you can! THANKS! ^_^
Hi,
I just wanted to leave a comment. If we compare the essence of Christianity and Krsna Consciousness there is no actual difference. Lord Jesus Christ, the empowered and pure devotee of the Lord came to spread in essence one really important message. “Love God and worship him and place His interests before your own,” and “Do onto other as you would have others do onto you.” Sorry, I could not replicate the exact wording. These instructions underpin the very essence of Christianity and every other true religion. If a particular group professes to be a religion but does not teach that the purpose of our life is to love God and serve Him (putting His interests before ours), then they are not a religion – but are something else. This essence is certainty in Christianity, in the Hare Krsna religion (which is not new but has been practiced under the name of “Vaisnavism” for many thousands of years in India), in Islam and so on. In the Vedic scriptures it is mentioned that “To always remember God and to never forget Him is the supreme principle and every other principle are servants or are subordinate to this principle”. Indeed, this is the very definition of religion – a path that teaches us that it is our very nature to love God and lovingly serve Him. I do not intend this as a personal comment, but it is sad that many who profess to follow Christianity get lost in simply arguing that my religion is better than yours and is the only way, etc and completely forget the essence – to always remember God and to never forget him. This does not however reduce the value of Christianity. The best way to always remember God and to never forget Him is to always chant the Holy Names of the Lord. As Jesus Christ said “O Lord, Who thou art in heaven Hallowed be Thy Name”. Some chant Allah, which mans the great one. This is correct because there is no one greater than God – therefore Allah is a name for God. The Hare Krsna s chant name Krsna which means “The one who is all attractive”. There is no one more attractive than god, so one can call out to God by chanting
“Hare Krsna Hare Krsna
Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare”
This is what the Hare Krsna s chant all the time. On the strength of the Holy Bible’s words, it must be concluded that the Hare Krsna s are true followers of the pure and wonderful devotee of the Lord, Jesus Christ, because they are following the essence of all religion.
If your goal is to develop love for God, then you should learn from those who show their deep love for God by always putting His interests before their own and always, always chant His Holy Names. Forget whether they are called Hindus, Christians, or Muslims. The brand does not matter – Look for the quality of the product. The fact that the Hare Krsna s can so perfectly follow the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ shows that the interpretation of the Greek verse commonly translated as “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father, but through me,” are misinterpreted. The fact that the essence is so clearly conveyed and practiced by others shows that the Lords mercy has fallen on so many others. So please consider these points carefully.
Here are some concluding words from another great devotee of the Lord who transplanted the ancient Vedic teachings into the world wide movement known as the Hare Krsna movement. His name is Srila Prabhupada. The following is a conversation between His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada and Father Emmanuel. I’m sorry – it is rather long, but well worth the read.
Srila Prabhupada: What is the meaning of the word Christ?
Father Emmanuel: Christ comes from the Greek word Christos, meaning "the anointed one".
Srila Prabhupada: Christos is the Greek version of the word Krishna.
Father Emmanuel: This is very interesting.
Srila Prabhupada: When an Indian person calls on Krishna, he often says, "Krsta". Krsta is a Sanskrit word meaning "attraction". So when we address God as "Christ", "Krsta", or "Krishna" we indicate the same all-attractive Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Jesus said, " Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be Thy name," the name of God was Krsta or Krishna. Do you agree?
Father Emmanuel: I think Jesus, as the son of God, has revealed to us the actual name of God: Christ. We can call God "Father", but if we want to address Him by His actual name, we have to say "Christ".
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. "Christ" is another way of saying Krsta and Krsta is another way of pronouncing Krishna, the name of God. Jesus said that one should glorify the name of God, but yesterday I heard one theologian say that God has no name -- that we can call Him only "Father". A son may call his father "Father", but the father also has a specific name. Similarly, God is the general name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose specific name is Krishna. Therefore whether you call God "Christ", "Krsta", or "Krishna", ultimately you are addressing the same Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Father Emmanuel: Yes, if we speak of God's actual name, then we must say, "Christos". In our religion we have the Trinity: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe we can know the name of God only by revelation from the son of God. Jesus Christ revealed the name of the Father, and therefore we take the name "Christ" as the revealed name of God.
Srila Prabhupada: Actually, it doesn't matter -- Krishna or Christ -- the name is the same. The main point is to follow the injunctions of the Vedic scriptures that recommend chanting the name of God in this age. The easiest way is to chant the maha-mantra: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare. Rama and Krishna are names of God and Hare is the energy of God. So when we chant the maha-mantra we address God along with His energy. This energy is of two kinds, the spiritual and the material. At present we are in the clutches of the material energy. Therefore we pray to Krishna that He may kindly deliver us from the service of the material energy and accept us into the service of the spiritual energy. This is our whole philosophy. Hare Krishna means, "O energy of God, O God (Krishna), please engage me in Your service." It is our nature to render service. Somehow or other we have come to the service of material things, but when this service is transformed into the service of the spiritual energy, then our life is perfect. To practice bhakti-yoga [loving service to God] means to become free from designations like Hindu, Muslim, Christian, this or that, and simply to serve God. We have created Christian, Hindu and Mohammedan religions, but when we come to a religion without designations, in which we don't think we are Hindus or Christians or Mohammedans, then we can speak of pure religion, or bhakti.
Father Emmanuel: Mukti? [liberation from material miseries]
Srila Prabhupada: No, bhakti. When we speak of bhakti, mukti is included. Without bhakti, there is no mukti, but if we act on the platform of bhakti, then mukti is included. We learn this from the Bhagavad-gita (14.26):
mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
"One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down under any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman."
Father Emmanuel: Is Brahman Krishna?
Srila Prabhupada: Krishna is Parabrahman. Brahman is realised in three aspects: as impersonal Brahman, as localised Paramatma and as personal Brahman. Krishna is personal and He is the Supreme Brahman, for God is ultimately a person. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.2.11), this is confirmed:
vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvam yaj-jnanam advayam
brahmeti paramatmati
bhagavan iti sabdyate
"Learned transcendentalists, who know the Absolute Truth, call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or Bhagavan." The feature of the Supreme Personality is the ultimate realisation of God. He has all six opulences in full: He is the strongest, the richest, the most beautiful, the most famous, the wisest and the most renounced.
Father Emmanuel: Yes, I agree.
Srila Prabhupada: Because God is absolute, His name, His form and His qualities are all absolute and they are nondifferent from Him. Therefore to chant God's holy name means to associate directly with Him. When one associates with God one acquires Godly qualities and when one is completely purified he becomes an associate of the Supreme Lord.
Father Emmanuel: But our understanding of the name of God is limited.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we are limited, but God is unlimited. And because He is unlimited, or absolute, he has unlimited names, each if which is God. We can understand His names as much as our spiritual understanding is developed.
What is the difference between Krishna consciousness and Christianity?
Father Emmanuel: May I ask a question? We Christians also preach love of God, and we try to realise love of God and render service to Him with all our heart and all our soul. Now, what is the difference between your movement and ours? Why do you send your disciples to the Western countries to preach love of God when the gospel of Jesus Christ is propounding the same message?
Srila Prabhupada: The problem is that the Christians do not follow the commandments of God. Do you agree?
Father Emmanuel: Yes, to a large extent you're right.
Srila Prabhupada: Then what is the meaning of the Christians' love for God? If you do not follow the orders of God, then where is your love? Therefore we have come to teach what it means to love God. If you love Him you cannot be disobedient to His orders. And if you are disobedient your love is not real.
Srila Prabhupada: All over the world people don't love God. They love their dogs. The Krishna consciousness movement is therefore necessary to teach people how to revive their forgotten love for God. Not only the Christians, but also the Hindus, the Mohammedans and all others are guilty. They have rubber-stamped themselves as Christian, Hindu or Mohammedan, but they do not obey God. This is the problem
Visitor: Can we say in what way the Christians are disobedient?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. The first point is they violate the commandment "Thou shall not kill" by maintaining slaughterhouses. Do you agree that this commandment is being violated?
Father Emmanuel: Personally, I agree.
Srila Prabhupada: Good. So if the Christians want to love God, they must stop killing animals.
Father Emmanuel: But isn't the most important point...
Srila Prabhupada: If you miss one point there is a mistake in your calculation. Regardless of what you add or subtract after that the mistake is already in the calculation and everything that follows will also be faulty. We cannot simply accept the part of the scripture we like and reject what we don't like and still expect to get the result. For example, a hen lays eggs with it's back part and eats with it's beak. A farmer may consider, "The front part of the hen is very expensive because I have to feed it. Better to cut it off." But if the head is missing there will be no eggs any more because the body is dead. Similarly, if we reject the difficult part of the scriptures and obey the part we like, such an interpretation will not help us. We have to accept all the injunctions of the scriptures as they are given , not just those that suit us. If you do not follow the first order, "Thou shall not kill," then where is the question of love of God?
Visitor: Christians take this commandment to be applicable to human beings, not to animals.
Srila Prabhupada: That would mean Christ was not intelligent enough to use the right word: murder. There is killing, and there is murder, Murder refers to human beings. Do you think Jesus was not intelligent enough to use the right word. Killing means any kind of killing and especially animal killing. If Jesus had meant simply the killing of humans he would have used the word murder.
• Mathew:5:21: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
• Mark:10:19: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
• Luke:18:20: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
• Romans:13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
• James:2:11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Father Emmanuel: But in the Old Testament the commandment "Thou shall not kill" does refer to murder. And when Jesus said, "Thou shall not kill," he extended the commandment to mean a human being should not only refrain from killing another human being, but should also treat him with love. He never spoke about man's relationship with other living entities but only about his relationship with other human beings. When he said, "thou shall not kill," he also meant in the mental and emotional sense -- that you should not insult anyone or hurt him, treat him badly and so on.
Srila Prabhupada: We are not concerned with this or that testament but only with the words used in the commandments. If you want to interpret these words, that is something else. We understand the direct meaning. "Thou shall not kill" means, "The Christians should not kill." You may put forward interpretations in order to continue the present way of action but we understand very clearly there is no need for interpretation. Interpretation is necessary if things are not clear. "Thou shall not kill" is a clear instruction. Why should we interpret it?
Father Emmanuel: Isn't the eating of plants also killing?
Srila Prabhupada: The Vaisnava philosophy teaches that we should not even kill plants unnecessarily. In the Bhagavad-gita (9.26) Krishna says:
patram puspam phalam toyam
yo me bhaktya prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahrtam
asnami prayatatmanah
"If someone offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit or a little water, I will accept it." We offer Krishna only the kind of food He demands, and then we eat the remnants. If offering vegetarian food to Krishna were sinful, then it would be Krishna's sin, not ours. But God is apapa-vijna -- sinful reactions are not applicable to Him. He is like the sun, which is so powerful that it can purify even urine -- something impossible for us to do. Krishna is also like a king, who may order a murderer to be hanged, but who himself is not subject to punishment because he is very powerful. Eating food first offered to the Lord is also something like a soldier's killing during wartime. In a war, when the commander orders a man to attack, the obedient soldier who kills the enemy will get a medal. But if the same soldier kills someone on his own he will be punished. Similarly when we eat only prasada [the remnants of food offered to Krishna], we do not commit any sin. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita (3.13):
yajna-sistasinah santo
mucyante sarva-kilbisaih
bhunjate te tu agham papa
ye pacanty atma-karanat
"The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food that is first offered for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin."
Father Emmanuel: Krishna cannot give permission to eat animals?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes -- in the animal kingdom. But the civilized human being, the religious human being is not meant to kill and eat animals. If you stop killing animals and chant the holy name Christ, everything will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but only to request you to please chant the name of God. The Bible also demands this of you. So let's kindly cooperate and chant, and if you have a prejudice about chanting the name Krishna then chant "Christos" or "Krsta" -- there is no difference. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said: namnam akari bahu-dha nija-sarva-saktis. "God has millions and millions of names, and because there is no difference between God's name and Himself, each one of these names has the same potency as God." Therefore even if you accept designations like Hindu, Christian or Mohammedan, if you simply chant the name of God found in your own scriptures, you will attain the spiritual platform. Human life is meant for self-realisation -- to learn how to love God. That is the actual beauty of man. Whether you discharge this duty as a Hindu, a Christian or a Mohammedan, it doesn't matter -- but do it?
Father Emmanuel: I agree.
Srila Prabhupada: [pointing to a string of 108 meditation beads] We always have these beads, just as you have your rosary. You are chanting, but why don't the other Christians also chant? Why should they miss this opportunity as human beings? Cats and dogs cannot chant, but we can because we have a human tongue. If we chant the holy names of God, we cannot loose anything; on the contrary, we gain greatly. My disciples practice chanting Hare Krishna constantly. They could also go to the cinema, or do so many other things, but they have given everything up. They eat neither fish nor meat nor eggs, they don't take intoxicants, they don't drink, they don't smoke, they don't partake in gambling, they don't speculate and they don't maintain illicit sexual connections. But they do chant the holy name of God. If you would like to cooperate with us then go to the other churches and chant, "Christ", "Krishna" or "Krsta". What could be the objection?
Sorry - this is the remaining small part of the conversation...
Father Emmanuel: There is none. For my part I would be glad to join you.
Srila Prabhupada: No. We are speaking with you as a representative of the Christian church. Instead of keeping the churches closed why not give them to us? We would chant the holy name of God there twenty-four hours a day. In many places we have bought churches that were practically closed because no one was going there. In London I saw hundreds of churches that were closed or used for mundane purposes. We bought one such church in Los Angeles. It was sold because no one came there, but if you visit the same church today, you will see thousands of people. Any intelligent person can understand what God is in five minutes; it doesn't require five hours.
Father Emmanuel: I understand.
Srila Prabhupada: But the people do not. Their disease is that they don't want to understand.
Visitor: I think understanding God is not a question of intelligence but a question of humility.
Srila Prabhupada: Humility means intelligence. "The humble and meek own the kingdom of God." This is stated in the Bible, is it not? But the philosophy of the rascals is that everyone is God and today this idea has become popular. Therefore no one is humble and meek. If everybody thinks he is God, why should he be humble and meek? Therefore I teach my disciples how to become humble and meek. They always offer their respectful obeisances in the temple and to the spiritual master, and in this way they make advancement. The qualities of humbleness and meekness lead very quickly to spiritual realisation. In the Vedic scriptures it is said, "To those who have firm faith in God and the spiritual master, who is His representative, the meaning of the Vedic scriptures is revealed."
Father Emmanuel: But shouldn't this humility be offered to everyone else also?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but there are two kinds of respect: special and ordinary. Sri Krishna Caitanya taught that we shouldn't expect honour for ourselves, but should always respect everyone else, even if he is disrespectful to us. But special respect should be given to God and His pure devotee.
Father Emmanuel: Yes, I agree.
Srila Prabhupada: I think the Christian priests should cooperate with the Krishna consciousness movement. They should chant the name of Christ or Christos and should stop condoning the slaughter of animals. This program follows the teachings of the Bible; it is not my philosophy. Please act accordingly and you will see how the world situation will change.
Father Emmanuel: Thank you very much
Srila Prabhupada: Hare Krishna!
That was a great experience Amanda, and, like Kenyn, I don't think I would've been able to go over there by myself and speak with them. Though I have learned to witness to someone you must first understand their point of view and evaluate it, instead of talking at them and telling them "I'm better than you are because..." and the like. I recall one sermon my pastor delivered in which he mentioned how practically every religion has some of the truth of Christianity. This saddens me because they are so close to the the truth yet so far, it's like it's sitting right there for them, but it's been twisted beyond recognition for them to see it. Anyways, I'll continue to pray for you so God can give you insight into what to say in response to this woman's email(s). ^_^
Good job girl! That is great that you had the boldness to share your faith. I actually work at D2S so it's great to see conference attendees using what they learned even long after the conference. Hope you come again!
I would have to disagree with Abhishek who said that between "the essence of Christianity and Krsna Consciousness there is no actual difference." There is a very fundamental difference. The cornerstone of Christianity is NOT serving and loving God. We do that, yes, but only as a result of the greatest reality, a reality that is beyond our control--that Jesus Christ died for us while we were still sinners and that it is ONLY THROUGH HIM that we can have a relationship with God. Without Christ, we can never be good enough to go to heaven. God would not hear our prayers without his intercession on our behalf. And the only specific thing we have to do to go to heaven is to believe that Christ died for us and to put our hope in Him for eternal life.
There needs to be forgiveness, some way to deal with sins. Hare Krishna does not address that, nor do any of the other world religions. God can't just forgive because that would mean He isn't a just God (you can't let criminals go free). Someone has to pay for sin and that is what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross.
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